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	<title>Comments on: Networks and The Myth of Flattening Organizations</title>
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	<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/</link>
	<description>aligning identity, action and purpose</description>
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		<title>By: gail@workplace safety guy</title>
		<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/#comment-2877</link>
		<dc:creator>gail@workplace safety guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 May 2010 16:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/?p=2894#comment-2877</guid>
		<description>this is going to get some getting use to...safety must be stressed to be number one point at all times</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this is going to get some getting use to&#8230;safety must be stressed to be number one point at all times</p>
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		<title>By: cv</title>
		<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/#comment-2532</link>
		<dc:creator>cv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/?p=2894#comment-2532</guid>
		<description>Here is a definition of concertive control, from Barker&#039;s article:

 &quot;concertive&quot; control ... &quot;represents a key shift in the locus of control from management to the workers themselves, who collaborate to develop the means of their own control. Workers achieve concertive control by reaching a negotiated consensus on how to shape their behavior according to a set of core values, such as the values found in a corporate vision statement. In a sense, concertive control reflects the adoption of a new substantive rationality, a new set of consensual values, by the organization and its members.&quot;

&lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;But wait&lt;/strong&gt;-&lt;/em&gt;- there&#039;s more. Here is a link to the Barker article:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4035/is_n3_v38/ai_14780321/?tag=content;col1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Tightening the iron cage: concertive control in self-managing teams&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
Administrative Science Quarterly, Sept, 1993 by James R. Barker</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a definition of concertive control, from Barker&#8217;s article:</p>
<p> &#8220;concertive&#8221; control &#8230; &#8220;represents a key shift in the locus of control from management to the workers themselves, who collaborate to develop the means of their own control. Workers achieve concertive control by reaching a negotiated consensus on how to shape their behavior according to a set of core values, such as the values found in a corporate vision statement. In a sense, concertive control reflects the adoption of a new substantive rationality, a new set of consensual values, by the organization and its members.&#8221;</p>
<p><em><strong>But wait</strong>-</em>- there&#8217;s more. Here is a link to the Barker article:</p>
<p><a href="http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m4035/is_n3_v38/ai_14780321/?tag=content;col1" rel="nofollow"><strong>Tightening the iron cage: concertive control in self-managing teams</strong></a><br />
Administrative Science Quarterly, Sept, 1993 by James R. Barker</p>
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		<title>By: cv</title>
		<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/#comment-2531</link>
		<dc:creator>cv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/?p=2894#comment-2531</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt; Joe, &lt;/strong&gt; I&#039;m thinking that we actually *don&#039;t* know how to do &#039;flat&#039; or networked organizations, except perhaps in organizations that arise from/among people who already have an alternative understanding of power and collaboration (e.g., &lt;em&gt; some &lt;/em&gt; of the social change, social entrepreneurship groups). 

I feel especially drawn towards &lt;strong&gt; Anne Marie&#039;s suggestion &lt;/strong&gt; that &quot;effort, courage, determination, constant attention, dialogue – and more dialogue&quot; are important, becuase we have to &lt;strong&gt;learn&lt;/strong&gt; how to interact and organize differently if we are to make flatter organizations less oppressive.  The issue from Barker&#039;s work, as I remember it, is that it is not the form of control (&#039;concertive&#039;) but the norms that were enforced using that control. But honestly I&#039;d better go back and read it.  

I too have horrible memories of seeing members of teams in high commitment work systems hurt each other as they  grappled- without much help from management-- to use a form of power (concertive) without understanding what was possible for them to be if they used that power in a more liberatory way. It was really the case of re-inscribing the same oppressions. So, I&#039;m with &lt;strong&gt; Jon I. &lt;/strong&gt; as well as Jon Husband, in calling for organizational change as intentional social change. 

Thanks for adding to the conversation-- I&#039;m so glad to have you company and to be able to support you, too.
.-= cv&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/AuthenticOrganizations/~3/eJupJ-RMGx8/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Networks and the Myth that Flatter Organizations are Better&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong> Joe, </strong> I&#8217;m thinking that we actually *don&#8217;t* know how to do &#8216;flat&#8217; or networked organizations, except perhaps in organizations that arise from/among people who already have an alternative understanding of power and collaboration (e.g., <em> some </em> of the social change, social entrepreneurship groups). </p>
<p>I feel especially drawn towards <strong> Anne Marie&#8217;s suggestion </strong> that &#8220;effort, courage, determination, constant attention, dialogue – and more dialogue&#8221; are important, becuase we have to <strong>learn</strong> how to interact and organize differently if we are to make flatter organizations less oppressive.  The issue from Barker&#8217;s work, as I remember it, is that it is not the form of control (&#8216;concertive&#8217;) but the norms that were enforced using that control. But honestly I&#8217;d better go back and read it.  </p>
<p>I too have horrible memories of seeing members of teams in high commitment work systems hurt each other as they  grappled- without much help from management&#8211; to use a form of power (concertive) without understanding what was possible for them to be if they used that power in a more liberatory way. It was really the case of re-inscribing the same oppressions. So, I&#8217;m with <strong> Jon I. </strong> as well as Jon Husband, in calling for organizational change as intentional social change. </p>
<p>Thanks for adding to the conversation&#8211; I&#8217;m so glad to have you company and to be able to support you, too.<br />
.-= cv&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/AuthenticOrganizations/~3/eJupJ-RMGx8/" rel="nofollow">Networks and the Myth that Flatter Organizations are Better</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Ingham</title>
		<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/#comment-2525</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Ingham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 13:56:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/?p=2894#comment-2525</guid>
		<description>CV, I&#039;ve been making what is I think probably a similar point - that networks and hierarchies are too different things.  Changing one doesn&#039;t necessarily change the other.  And democracy and autonomy is probably a third thing again.  Flat, networked organisations can probably still be miserable places in which to work.

http://blog.social-advantage.com/2010/01/social-networks-and-organisational.html

http://blog.social-advantage.com/2010/01/social-revolution-isnt-hierarchy-to.html
.-= Jon Ingham&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SocialAdvantage/~3/3jiJTJ8-rFo/social-revolution-isnt-hierarchy-to.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Social Revolution - isn’t hierarchy to networks&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CV, I&#8217;ve been making what is I think probably a similar point &#8211; that networks and hierarchies are too different things.  Changing one doesn&#8217;t necessarily change the other.  And democracy and autonomy is probably a third thing again.  Flat, networked organisations can probably still be miserable places in which to work.</p>
<p><a href="http://blog.social-advantage.com/2010/01/social-networks-and-organisational.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.social-advantage.com/2010/01/social-networks-and-organisational.html</a></p>
<p><a href="http://blog.social-advantage.com/2010/01/social-revolution-isnt-hierarchy-to.html" rel="nofollow">http://blog.social-advantage.com/2010/01/social-revolution-isnt-hierarchy-to.html</a><br />
.-= Jon Ingham&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/SocialAdvantage/~3/3jiJTJ8-rFo/social-revolution-isnt-hierarchy-to.html" rel="nofollow">The Social Revolution &#8211; isn’t hierarchy to networks</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Anne Marie McEwan</title>
		<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/#comment-2521</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne Marie McEwan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/?p=2894#comment-2521</guid>
		<description>Hi CV

This is a great post. Thank you. 

You might enjoy Barker, J.A (2003). &#039;Tightening The Iron Cage: Concertive Control In Self-Managing Teams&#039; Administrative Science Quarterly , Vol. 38, p408 - 437. Ah, just had a quick look at Ezzamel and Willmot - they reference Barker.

It has been a long time since I read the paper. From memory, he shows how a self-managed team created their own behavioural norms and how this resulted in levels of self-imposed control that management could only dream of. I have seen this in practice when researching self-managed teams.

You are right about the myth of network structures. On a personal note, a project I managed years ago almost made me ill. It was a network of universities, trade unions, business organisations, think tanks and consultants. It was rich in cliques, power bases, pre-existing sub-groups, grievances, ambition, inclusion, exclusion etc. By the way, the trade unions and business organisations were as good as gold. No conflict there. 

I have come to the conclusion that people will be people. Expecting them to play nice is futile. Some will, some will not. And of the some that will, even they sometimes will not when they have their own agendas to pursue.

I co-facilitate a learning network for IT, FM and HR specialists. We explore issues around the changing workplace and were very fortunate to have someone from Nokia come to speak to us about the Nokia Siemens merger that formed NSN. Our speaker was talking about creating conditions for the emergence of a new culture. He defined culture as &quot;the struggle for shared meaning&quot; and requires effort, courage, determination, constant attention, dialogue - and more dialogue. This is what is needed to bring about significant change.
.-= Anne Marie McEwan&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thesmartworkcompany.com/2010/01/collaboration-by-design/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Collaboration By Design&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi CV</p>
<p>This is a great post. Thank you. </p>
<p>You might enjoy Barker, J.A (2003). &#8216;Tightening The Iron Cage: Concertive Control In Self-Managing Teams&#8217; Administrative Science Quarterly , Vol. 38, p408 &#8211; 437. Ah, just had a quick look at Ezzamel and Willmot &#8211; they reference Barker.</p>
<p>It has been a long time since I read the paper. From memory, he shows how a self-managed team created their own behavioural norms and how this resulted in levels of self-imposed control that management could only dream of. I have seen this in practice when researching self-managed teams.</p>
<p>You are right about the myth of network structures. On a personal note, a project I managed years ago almost made me ill. It was a network of universities, trade unions, business organisations, think tanks and consultants. It was rich in cliques, power bases, pre-existing sub-groups, grievances, ambition, inclusion, exclusion etc. By the way, the trade unions and business organisations were as good as gold. No conflict there. </p>
<p>I have come to the conclusion that people will be people. Expecting them to play nice is futile. Some will, some will not. And of the some that will, even they sometimes will not when they have their own agendas to pursue.</p>
<p>I co-facilitate a learning network for IT, FM and HR specialists. We explore issues around the changing workplace and were very fortunate to have someone from Nokia come to speak to us about the Nokia Siemens merger that formed NSN. Our speaker was talking about creating conditions for the emergence of a new culture. He defined culture as &#8220;the struggle for shared meaning&#8221; and requires effort, courage, determination, constant attention, dialogue &#8211; and more dialogue. This is what is needed to bring about significant change.<br />
.-= Anne Marie McEwan&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://www.thesmartworkcompany.com/2010/01/collaboration-by-design/" rel="nofollow">Collaboration By Design</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Logan</title>
		<link>http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/harquail/2010/01/14/networks-and-the-myth-of-flattening-organizations/#comment-2520</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Logan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 22:31:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://AuthenticOrganizations.com/?p=2894#comment-2520</guid>
		<description>I suspect our ability to envision new forms of organization outstrips our ability to manage them.  I further suspect that this undermines acceptance of those new forms of organization.  Do we know how to do flat or networked?  I dunno.  Your thought that one mode doesn&#039;t necessarily replace the other seems pretty healthy to me.
.-= Joseph Logan&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://publicorgtheory.org/2010/01/13/positive-psychology-and-adoption-without-coercion/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Positive psychology and adoption without coercion&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect our ability to envision new forms of organization outstrips our ability to manage them.  I further suspect that this undermines acceptance of those new forms of organization.  Do we know how to do flat or networked?  I dunno.  Your thought that one mode doesn&#8217;t necessarily replace the other seems pretty healthy to me.<br />
.-= Joseph Logan&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://publicorgtheory.org/2010/01/13/positive-psychology-and-adoption-without-coercion/" rel="nofollow">Positive psychology and adoption without coercion</a> =-.</p>
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